Johnny Thomson 00:00
Are you worried by news that rural crime is on the increase? Well, stay tuned, while we put that news into perspective and also offer one or two tips on keeping your hall safe and secure. Hi, everyone, I’m Johnny Thomson and welcome once again to The Village Halls Podcast sponsored by Allied Westminster, the UK’s largest specialist provider of village hall insurance and the home of VillageGuard. Now, there’s been quite a bit in the news recently about crime in rural areas going up, with a lot of this being connected to the cost of living crisis of course. So are things really getting worse? And what can you do to keep your village hall more safe and secure? To help with all of this, I’m glad to say I’ve been joined today by Dave Reynolds from risk management company RiskSTOP. Dave has many years of experience looking at all kinds of buildings and their security and fire hazards. Hi, Dave.

Dave Reynolds 00:59
Hello.

Johnny Thomson 00:59
Thanks for coming on the show. How are you?

Dave Reynolds 01:01
Yeah I’m good Johnny, thanks. Suffering with the heat again at the moment, to be fair.

Johnny Thomson 01:07
Yeah, yeah. It’s lasting longer than we were all expecting, I think.

Dave Reynolds 01:11
Yeah, I’m actually surrounded by fields. I’m in the sort of middle of Lincolnshire at the moment.

Johnny Thomson 01:18
Yeah. And I think as well we should mention now just in case it does happen. If there’s a if there’s a strange whimpering noise in the background, it’s not because Dave’s keeping anybody prisoner there or anything. There’s a dog there isn’t there, suffering from the heat as well who is not particularly comfortable today either.

Dave Reynolds 01:33
No, I’m, as I said, I’m dog sitting. Or wolf sitting, I should say, because it’s a big big white Alsatian.

Johnny Thomson 01:42
Fantastic, brilliant. Okay, before we get on to rural, crime and village hall security, tell me a little bit about what you do Dave for a living in and why you do it as well?

Dave Reynolds 01:53
So my job title is Head of Risk Engineering and Surveys. And as you pointed out, I work for RiskSTOP who are the largest insurance-related risk management company in the UK. So my role is looking after a group of risk surveyors. Also, I, I suppose the term is still get my hands dirty. I go out and do a fair few surveys up and down the country, and sometimes out of the country.

Johnny Thomson 02:31
And come on, I know it’s not always easy for you to talk specifically about the places that you go out and survey because of confidentiality and all that, but at least give me some clues about the more interesting places you’ve visited in connection with your work and also the variety.

Dave Reynolds 02:45
Okay, well I’ve looked at everything from historic buildings, large Premier League football stadia, abbatoirs, animal rendering plants… all the nice places we all want to go and visit. Timber merchants. I’m actually going to see a sawmill on Thursday. Plastics, metal, racing circuits, horse racing circuits.

Johnny Thomson 03:13
Anything you can think of and a few village halls as well presumably?

Dave Reynolds 03:17
Yeah large homes, village halls. So yeah, I mean.

Johnny Thomson 03:20
Okay, so rural crime, as I said at the outset, there’s been a fair bit of news recently about rising rural crime. But it’s maybe worth putting this into perspective, yeah?

Dave Reynolds 03:31
Yeah, I suppose sort of rising, I mean, sort of since when? I mean, don’t forget we’ve just come out of COVID and people, I suppose the term is weren’t allowed to go out. So I would imagine that when we compare rural crime now, to two three years ago, it has increased, but if you think about rural crime compared to urban crime, it probably accounts for a very small amount of overall crime. Yet, we mustn’t forget the effect that any type of crime has on the individuals that suffer for it.

Johnny Thomson 04:10
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And with village halls as well of course, it’s not just the people that run and own the building, but it’s the entire community as well, which depends on that facility. So the impact, although rare, as you say and I think it’s important that we mention that it still remains quite rare and some of these stories about increasing crime are a little bit naughty I think, at times and are just set to try and make people a little bit scared unnecessarily. But, yeah, you’re right, it has to be recognised that these things can happen and can have a severe impact on local communities.

Dave Reynolds 04:48
So yeah, they’re sort of often the sort of proper hub of the community.

Johnny Thomson 04:51
I liked it when you said people weren’t allowed to go out as well, because it just made me think yeah, and that included robbers and burglars and so on as well and of course that’s genuinely why a lot of the crime figures fell at that time. So, yeah, I think it’s a case of comparing the figures like for like, you know before COVID really and whether things have really gone up, I’m not entirely sure. But anyway, the main thing I guess is to help village halls understand how they can make sure that their security is up to scratch and how to approach all of that. So, from your position Dave, what’s the first step, you know that anyone should take when it comes to security?

Dave Reynolds 05:37
Well, I think probably the first thing is to think like a burglar!

Johnny Thomson 05:43
How do we do that?

Dave Reynolds 05:45
Well look at the building, look at the doors, look at the windows, think about what’s held inside the hall and sort of think about whether the security that’s in place is strong enough to keep all but the most determined person out. You know, the sort of issue you have with security is that you have to weigh up the security against the gain that’s with inside the building. So for instance, you’re never going to turn a village hall into Fort Knox. But, if you don’t have maybe key locks on your windows, key locks on your doors, you can make it fairly easy for somebody to get in quite quickly and quite easily, without making too much noise.

Johnny Thomson 06:31
Yeah. So what you saying is no one’s going to plan a major heist of a village hall?

Dave Reynolds 06:36
No, I mean more often than not, it will be like an opportunist. You know, I remember doing a course when I first started, it was a police course and they talked about deflection, deterrent and disappointment. And I suppose the sort of the two either side, deflection and disappointment, you know, try to get the village hall looking more secure than the one in the next village. Because if somebody drives past and they see two they’re going to look for the easier target. The other one is obviously disappointment. If there’s nothing in there to take then people are less likely to break in to take it.

Johnny Thomson 07:18
Yeah. so I was going to say, that obviously means leaving, making sure things are out of sight, and so on, if they are attractive, yeah?

Dave Reynolds 07:27
Yeah, sort of maybe having a secure room within the hall, where you can, you know, lock things away. So if people look through windows, all they see is not an empty village hall, but a village hall with basic furnishings and bits and pieces, rather than if you’ve got, you know, electronic equipment, alcohol if there’s a bar, you know those sorts of things, things that would attract people in.

Johnny Thomson 07:54
And then just look at the strength of the doors, look at the strength of the windows and look for any any weak spots, any point of entry where somebody might be able to get in, yeah?

Dave Reynolds 08:04
Yeah. And I suppose the biggy is, if you’ve got security measures in place, make sure you use them every time.

Johnny Thomson 08:11
Yes, of course. And the other thing I suppose with that is, it’s interesting you said think like a burglar. Anyone could be a thief as well, potentially, couldn’t they? And it’s not just a case of when the place is shut up at night, we all know village halls are open places for people to come and visit and participate in activities. You’ve got to be careful during the day haven’t you, perhaps even more so when things could be even more vulnerable and that’s the time definitely make sure things are out of sight and out of mind?

Dave Reynolds 08:46
Yeah, 100%. It’s a bit like a church, isn’t it? Churches don’t necessarily lock their doors because they want to encourage people in. But again, it’s just being mindful about sort of not having the crown jewels on view, at all times, because obviously that then shows people that potentially, you know, there is something of attraction in and something that’s worth maybe breaking in for. And you’re right, burglars don’t walk walk around in black and white stripy tops. It could be absolutely anybody.

Johnny Thomson 09:16
Isn’t it a shame that they don’t anyway?

Dave Reynolds 09:19
It would be so much easier, wouldn’t it?

Johnny Thomson 09:20
Yeah it would be. Dressed like Dick Turpin or something.

Dave Reynolds 09:25
Stand and deliver!

Johnny Thomson 09:28
Now, I know you want to mention, probably a risk that’s far more severe in reality, and that is fire and the risk of arson in particular. Again, it’s worth saying that these these things are rare, but if they do happen, as I say the impact can be quite severe and especially on community buildings, yeah?

Dave Reynolds 09:47
100%. Arson still remains the largest cause of fire in the UK. So, sort of thinking about things like where you locate your bins and not having bins that are are overflowing with rubbish. Or maybe if you’ve had an event, just sort of checking the bins at the end of the night to make sure that somebody hasn’t inadvertently disposed of a lit cigarette into the bin. If you think, if they’re up against the building, there’s a likelihood of that fire then spreads into the building. If they’re away from the building, the bins burn out and that’s the end of it. But also sort of consider that if you can move them away from the building, think about chaining them to something, because obviously, it doesn’t take too much effort to push a wheelie bin back to the side of the building and set light to it.

Johnny Thomson 10:37
Interesting. It was, you know, as soon as you went for the bin comment, I was thinking what difference does it make where your bin is, but you know, you’ve explained that quite clearly. And that must be, otherwise he wouldn’t have mentioned it, quite a common source of of ignition and fire.

Dave Reynolds 10:51
Oh, absolutely. And sort of other things like, you know, combustible waste up against the building. Maybe something’s been delivered, some some new furniture and it’s on pallets, or it’s in cardboard and it just gets stuck up outside the building at night. And again, you know, there are nasty people out there who will come and set light to it, just for the hell of it.

Johnny Thomson 11:11
Yeah. And I guess accidentally as well, it’s good to have that housekeeping in place for those things, just in case there’s a stray cigarette or something goes in and ignites those things, yeah?

Dave Reynolds 11:23
100%. Because if you think now we’ve got the laws in that prohibit smoking in commercial buildings. I mean, that would apply to village halls, so people are smoking outside. So if there’s nowhere to dispose of cigarettes, then obviously they could be flicked, as I said, flicked into bins, or flicked into other combustible waste outside the building.

Johnny Thomson 11:43
Interesting you mention laws and regulations. There are some regulations aren’t there around fire and carrying out fire assessments and so on, that people out there running village halls really need to be aware of as well, yeah?

Dave Reynolds 11:56
Oh 100%, that they should be sort of looking… well, they should be carrying out a fire risk assessment. They should be thinking about things like, can people get out of the building easily? So going back to security, I mean what you’ll quite often see is that people will chain fire exit doors up. That’s absolutely fine, as long as somebody comes in, that first person into the building, and unchaines them before everybody else comes in. What you don’t want is a scenario where there’s people in there, you’ve got a fire and people can’t get out because the fire exit is it still chained up? Or if they’ve got shutters, the shutters haven’t been raised on the outside of the fire exit doors.

Johnny Thomson 12:34
And what are the elements to doing a fire risk assessment Dave, because I know some people hear that phrase risk assessment, and it makes them think it’s got to be something really technical, and you’ve got to have official documentation and all that kind of stuff. But largely it’s quite a simple and straightforward process, isn’t it?

Dave Reynolds 12:52
Well, sort of fire risk assessment is all down to life safety. So it’s ensuring that whilst people are in the building, if something does happen, they can get out of that building safely. And you’re right, Johnny, you know, the village hall isn’t a particularly complex building. So somebody that has enough wit about them, could probably do a reasonable sort of fire risk assessment without having to go out to a professional. There’s plenty of like, examples of documentation of what needs to be thought about online. So as I said, you know, somebody could take a basic template, as long as they feel confident and competent to do it, they could do their own fire risk assessment.

Johnny Thomson 13:39
Any other thoughts, Dave? Anything else?

Dave Reynolds 13:42
Yeah, so just another couple of bits, staying with the fire side. Obviously, electrical fires are very prevalent. I mean, that’s probably the sort of second highest cause of fire. So again, you know, making sure that the fixed wiring is inspected on a regular basis. And also sort of looking for silly things. So, making sure you haven’t got combustibles up against or below your electrical panels. Similarly, not up against boilers. So anything that could produce heat could ignite combustibles. So probably as a sort of, sort of shutdown at the end of each day, is it just to have a quick walk around, look internally for things like that combustible storage in those higher risk areas. You know, check to make sure things have been turned off that don’t need to be on. Check to make sure that internal security has been put in place. And then once you lock up at night, just have a quick wander around the outside of the building, just to check to make sure nothing’s been pushed up against the building or you’ve got no external waste against the building.

Johnny Thomson 14:55
Brilliant. Great advice. Good idea to turn everything off as well before you go, because you don’t want to be spending any unnecessary money on electricity?

Dave Reynolds 15:03
Well not a moment.

Johnny Thomson 15:04
Not at the moment, definitely not. Insurance, I suppose is important as well, should the worst thing happen?

Dave Reynolds 15:11
Oh, absolutely, you know, people should be talking to their broker to make sure they’ve got the sort of relevant coverage.

Johnny Thomson 15:19
What about keys and things as well, obviously different people have access to as part of the building, I guess making sure that’s managed well, and, and so on. And also alarms, alarm systems.

Dave Reynolds 15:31
Yeah. So if we think about keys first, I mean, the first thing I would say is, don’t have tags on them that tell you what those keys are for. So don’t have something that says, Old Leek Village Hall, because if you lose them, somebody potentially has the keys and knows exactly what they’re for.

Johnny Thomson 15:51
Yeah, keys to safe?

Dave Reynolds 15:52
Oh, absolutely. Yes, yes, yes. And interestingly, you mentioned intruder alarms.You know, intruder alarms won’t stop people getting in, but what they will do is they will pick up that somebody is within a building. I mean, often these village halls are in the middle of nowhere. So police response is going to be limited and potentially quite slow. So you know, it’s worthwhile having a list of keyholders as respondents. But obviously, the big thing is, if they do respond, respond in pairs. I mean, you know, don’t forget, if somebody is trying to break in, and you come across them, they’re probably not going to shake your hand and ask you how you are?

Johnny Thomson 16:38
No, and it’s not worth, it’s not worth risking your life.

Dave Reynolds 16:42
Oh, absolutely.

Johnny Thomson 16:43
Anything else? Any other hints and tips before we go?

Dave Reynolds 16:49
Again, you know, you wouldn’t expect a village hall to have a sort of business continuity plan. But it’s worthwhile having a list of, you know, local tradesmen. So, you know, if somebody breaks a window, or someone damages a door, or you can’t lock a door, you know who to call to just do those basic repairs.

Johnny Thomson 17:09
Yeah, those important records as well that you might have at the hall and important contact points. And, you know, that kind of information, I guess it’s a case of making sure they’re in duplicate or making sure that some some are held in a safe place elsewhere should something bad happened and you discover that you you’ve lost all of your information and all your your records relating to the hall.

Dave Reynolds 17:32
Yeah, absolutely. And don’t forget that you shouldn’t be relying on just one person, because I’m guessing that that one person may have potentially have a holiday or be out for the evening and bits and pieces. So there should be a number of people that are able to sort of respond, or know how to do that end of day, sort of check to make sure as we said everything’s been turned off and shut down properly.

Johnny Thomson 17:58
Okay. Brilliant. Great stuff Dave. Listen thanks so much for for your insight. Really appreciate you coming on, despite the heat. And the dog sitting as well.

Dave Reynolds 18:12
Oh, absolutely.

Johnny Thomson 18:13
Who says men can’t multitask, you know what I mean?

Dave Reynolds 18:17
Well, my wife for one.

Johnny Thomson 18:22
And I hope people listening in have found it both useful and interesting as well.

Dave Reynolds 18:27
Excellent.

Johnny Thomson 18:28
Okay. Well, thanks again, Dave and great to catch up as well of course.

Dave Reynolds 18:33
No problem. Nice to speak to you.

Johnny Thomson 18:35
Yeah, thanks for coming on. And that’s all we have time for for this episode. Before we go, let me just mention again, our Wonderful Villages Awards. There’s five awards all together, including the Young Persons Award and an Inspirational Story Award and you could win £1,000 for your local village, church, or community hall. You can find out more about The Wonderful Villages Awards on our website. Many thanks to our headline sponsor and specialist insurance provider Allied Westminster for making our podcast possible, and whose services you can discover more about it villageguard.com. And to online booking system provider Hallmaster who also sponsor our podcast and can be found at hallmaster.co.uk. You’ve been listening to The Village Halls Podcast, a unique listening community for Britain’s village, church and community halls and anyone interested in the vital community services they provide. We’ll be back again soon with another episode, so please visit thevillagehallspodcast.com to subscribe, sign up for updates link through to our social media pages and find out more. Until the next time. Good bye for now.